APPENDIX: Interviews between Refugees International and North Korean RefugeesInterviews 1-10 Interviews 11-20 Interviews 21-30 Interviews 31-40 Interviews 41-47 INTERVIEW 31 WOMAN, Age 59 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Musan FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 1998 In North Korea, she cut firewood for a living. She could barter a cart of firewood for 500g of corn. Her husband was a lumberjack. When her husband became sick, she sold their house to buy medicine. Her husband died in 1997, possibly from lung cancer. After he died, her family had no house and no food so they decided to go to China. She had heard that they could be better off in China because the Chinese felt sorry for North Koreans so they were nice to them. Her two daughters and one son escaped to China in 1997, a year before she came. The plan was for her children to go ahead to China, establish themselves, and she would come later. The daughters went ahead to China and found an older man. He is Han Chinese, but had lived in North Korea in the 1960s when things were bad in China. He can speak some Korean. She came to China for the first time in 1998 with two others. One was caught by North Korean guards. A Chinese guard helpedher and the other to hide so they were able to make it into China. Her daughter had advised on how to cross. Before she left, her daughter had given her the address of the older man. She stopped to ask directions along the way, and everyone was very kind to her: “They were better than my real relatives.” She was able to find her “husband.” She was sent back to North Korea three times. The first time, she was caught in April 2001 and she returned to China in June. The second time, she was caught in April 2003, and she returned to China in August. In 2004 she was caught in April yet again, and she returned just a few weeks later. She was caught all three times when she was out farming. The Chinese did not mistreat her: “Everyone was nice to me.” One daughter and her son were caught, but they are now back in China. In each case, she was sent to the National Security Jail. The conditions were okay, as long as you follow the rules. She explained that it is different in China now because the North Koreans have committed many crimes and the Chinese don’t feel sympathetic anymore. INTERVIEW 32 MAN, Age 32 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Musan FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: March 2001 He works in a warehouse at a mine in Musan. He receives 2-3 kilos of corn per month, but the distribution is irregular. His wife does some small-scale trade. She buys cigarettes from Chinese traders and resells them. She buys a packet for 82 NK won and sells them for 85 NK won. She sells 20-30 packets a day. His father died in 2001. His two sisters are married. His mother is sick. He has been married for four years, and he has a two year old daughter. This is his second time to come to China. He came to China both times to get medicine for his mother. He heard from people who had been in China before that if he went to China, the church would assist him. On his first trip, he traveled with someone familiar with the route who knew about a church in Kilji. The missionary was out, so he got some clothes from the man in charge. He went back to North Korea three days later and started working again at the mine. He earns around 700 NK won at the mine, and he gets an irregular food distribution. The prices of goods have increased. Rice is 360 NK won per kilo. In 2001, the price was 280 NK won. 1996 was an especially difficult year. They had to eat porridge made from bark. He thinks the economic situation has gotten worse since last winter. He does not know why, but he has heard that the Americans are causing it. Last year, he earned less than 500, but it is now 700. Most of the people working in the mine got an increase. Lots of things are available in the market. There are different kinds of food, clothes, and kitchen items. The people who have been to China can buy these products because they have money. People like him who have not worked in China cannot afford these things. It is hard for people to survive if they have not been to China. He constantly thinks to himself, “I need to go to China.” He talked to someone who went to a National Security Jail. If people know the guards or have money to bribe the guards, they can survive. Otherwise you come out half-dead. He has only been to middle school. He took two years off because he had a stomach disease. Afterwards he started working in the mine. He has been working there for 13 years. He arrived in China three days ago with a neighbor. They were able to find assistance in the church. He wanted to get some painkillers for his mother. He expects to return to North Korea later tonight. His family is waiting for him. If life is hard, he will come back to China. He is planning on paying 100 RMB to the North Korean guards. Musan is only a three-hour walk from the Chinese border. There has not been an increase in people leaving Musan because North Koreans know about the Chinese crackdowns. The presence of Chinese border guards has increased. Every day he eats cornmeal mixed with greens. He eats two meals a day. Usually he doesn’t eat rice. He saves his rice for his daughter. If a person gets sick, they can go to the hospital. Injections are free, but there is no medicine. Doctors tell patients to buy the medicine off Chinese traders. Some people have radios. Most people buy them in China. People are able to get Chinese, North Korean and South Korean stations, but they are punished if they are caught listening to South Korean news. Usually radios are fixed to receive only a single channel. INTERVIEW 33 MAN, Age 32 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Musan FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: Unclear; most recent arrival June 2004 He has three brothers and sisters. Both his parents died in 1998-1999. He is marriedwith a one-year old son. He has been married seven years. He and his wife worked on the same farm. He came to China to get money for birthday presents for his son. His birthday is on June 2. He has some relatives who are Chinese and sometimes he can get some help from them. He wants to go back to North Korea before his son’s birthday and will probably leave tonight. He has never been caught before. He just crosses back and forth to get assistance. He has been to China five times. Three times he came to get medicine for his father, and he came twice to get clothes for his children. Each time, he has to pay a 100 RMB bribe to the North Korean guards. He travels back and forth with the same neighbor each time. Living conditions in North Korea are difficult. He eats corn and greens every day, and he receives an irregular food distribution. He grows corn, but has to give all his crops to the officials. The officials, in turn, distribute the food to others. He only receives a small portion. He never has enough to eat. Why else would he have to come to China to get money and clothes? He borrowed 30,000 NK won from his neighbors and he has to pay back 36,000 NK won. He borrowed the money for his son’s birthday party. He had two children before, and they died before they reached one year — the first after two months and the second after eight months. This time he doesn’t want his son to die. He had two children before, and they died before they reached one year… This time he doesn’t want his son to die. He brought some seaweed and trout, which are cheap in North Korea, to China for his relatives to sell. He will use the profits to pay off his debt. He is afraid that his relatives have not had any success in selling the food. He said there is no mistreatment for families of defectors. Only the defectors themselves are sent to National Security Jail and the labor centers. He feels safe in North Korea and doesn’t want to live in China because his wife is in North Korea. He said he is not treated well in China. In terms of health, most people are weak and skinny, like him. Now they have to pay to get treatment. The policy of free medical care has gradually changed since 2000. One injection costs 1000 NK won. If people get sick, they don’t go to the hospital. They take Chinese medicine. One of his children that died had lung disease and he had to pay 6000 NK won to get medicine. Women have their babies at home. He said three or four women every year in his town of 500 die in childbirth. For 400 RMB, North Koreans can buy official permission to go to China. You have to know an official, however, to get the permission. One person in his town, whose uncle is in a high political position, received permission. INTERVIEW 34 WOMAN, Age 48 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Ch’ongjin FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: September 1999 She has not returned to North Korea since she arrived in 1999. Her two daughters are still there. Her husband worked at a company that exported mushrooms to Japan. He died in a car accident when she was 29. She worked in a post office as a receptionist in North Korea. She said she felt like a traitor for coming to China. Her salary 10 years ago was 47 NK won. Back then 100 NK won was enough to live on. After her salary stopped in 1998, she decided to come to China. She had no intention to live here; she only planned to stay for a little while and get some assistance from her Chinese relatives. When she came, her Chinese relative set her up with a Chinese man. She became his second wife. He treats her well. They go to church together. They are the same age. He is Korean Chinese. She speaks a little Chinese. Once she got a letter from her daughter saying that she was getting married to a man in Musan. The letter did not mention anything else, and she has not heard from her since then. The Chinese authorities have not caused problems for her so far. She said, “God protects me.” Other people have been caught. Three years ago, it was easy to cross because surveillance in China was minimal. When she escaped, she promised she would pay the North Korean guard 200 RMB when she returned. She had planned on staying for three days, and she even made an appointment with him for three days later, but she never went back. INTERVIEW 35 WOMAN, age 68 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Ch’angdo FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: December 1999 When she was young, she worked in a food factory. Her husband had been a truck driver, but he earned 60 NK won per month as a pension. In 1994, the food rations stopped because there was no supply. They have two daughters and a son. Her husband in North Korea died in 1997. She moved in with her son, but she did not tell him when she decided to go to China. She had heard that living in China was good. She traveled with two women and two men in November. One of the men knew the route. She had been in China many years ago to see her relatives. Her family lived in Tumen, and she was able to remember where they lived. She stayed with her cousin for two months, and she asked him to help her find a man to marry. She married a Korean Chinese, but he died of a stroke six months later. She remarried, and her current husband had a stroke and is totally paralyzed. Her husband’s son (a 40-year-old) is living in Qingdao and he sends money. She has never met him. She has had no contact with her family in North Korea. INTERVIEW 36 WOMAN, Age 38, and her Son, Age 14 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Onsong FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: August 1997 She came to China in August 1997 with her husband, who is now dead, her seven-year-old son, and her six-year-old daughter. Her husband knew the route because he had been to China before to meet his Chinese relatives. Her husband wanted to come to China. She didn’t want to leave. She fought her husband for 15 days. Her father is Chinese, but left for North Korea in the 1960s. At that time, North Korea was better off than China and Chinese sometimes moved to North Korea to survive. In North Korea her husband was sick. He had a stroke and half his body was paralyzed. Their living conditions deteriorated because they had to buy medicine for him. Both she and her husband were farmers. They got a food distribution once a year after the harvest. The food distribution was supposed to be 700 grams per day, but only 150 grams per day remained after all the deductions. In 2002, there was a serious crackdown and her family was caught. Her daughter was not caught because she was at her English tutor’s house. They were sent back to North Korea and went to the National Security Jail to be interrogated. They were there for a week before being taken to a labor center for three days. Her son, because he was a child, and her husband, because he was sick, did not have to work. “I was so lucky that we only had to spend three days there.” In May, they returned to China. In September, the four family members were caught. Again, they went to the National Security Jail, and then were sent to the labor center for five days. The conditions at the labor center were hard. Two people carried stones. They couldn’t walk. They had to run. If someone fell down, they were kicked. It was like a race, and the first six people could rest. They had to run for 100 meters, 30 times. They had a 30 minute rest period. Defectors had to run with the stones that criminals handed them. Both men and women did this work. Eighty percent of the prisoners were defectors. In the labor center, the guards cursed at the prisoners. She said she was hit and kicked. Everyone had to use the toilet in the open with ten guards watching. They usually got up at 6:00 am and marched singing, “I won’t betray again.” They ate porridge made from rice husks and scraps of Chinese cabbage. Sometimes there were stones in their food. Her family was released together. Usually, the punishment is more severe to people who are caught twice. She thinks God is taking care of her because her family was spared from extra punishment. Her husband died when they were deported back to North Korea the second time, and now she is married to a Chinese man. They farm together. “When can I have a normal life? I don’t even want to go to South Korea. I just want to live here and feel safe.” INTERVIEW 37 WOMAN, Age 34 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Unknown FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: December 1997 Her mother and father died when she was 25. She started working in a mine at 17, but when she was 22, the mine collapsed and she developed a heart condition. She got married when she was 25 and got divorced six months later months due to the heart disease. She has seizures about twice a month. Her mother-in-law buys her snake eyes and heart for medicine. “I just want to live here and feel safe.” She lived alone after her parents died. Her house was broken into three times. One day, after the third robbery, a man (she later discovered that he was the person robbing her house) knocked on her door and suggested that she go to China. He promised to introduce her to a Chinese man. She had no idea about China, but after being robbed, she thought going to China was the only way for her to survive. She crossed the border with a “guide” and worked as a housekeeper for two or three months. On the Chinese New Year holiday, there were fireworks, which scared her and caused her to have a seizure. The landlord saw that she was sick so they kicked her out. The landlord did not mistreat her. She didn’t get paid while she was working, but when she was kicked out, she was given 20 RMB. On her way back in to North Korea, a guard discovered her and took her 20 RMB and some clothes. She went to the National Security Jail, and the doctor saw that she had a heart problem so she didn’t have to go to the labor center. She spent a week in the jail. In the National Security Jail, she was separated from the others because she was sick. When guards mistreated people, they took them out one by one, so she does not know to what extent they were mistreated. Defectors and criminals were separated. They were given only a small amount of corn meal mixed with greens. After prison, she returned home, and she saw that everything was gone. She learned that the robber had stripped her house down after she left for China. She also said that he was eventually caught and sentenced to ten years in prison, although he was released after five. She did menial farming jobs for the next six or seven years. She returned to China in March 2004. The broker was released from jail, and he showed up again and started watching her. She had allowed a homeless old woman, her daughter, and granddaughter to come and stay with her, but one day the three of them took her house from her. The broker showed up again. She wanted to die. Her heart disease got worse and worse. Her neighbor told her that her death would only make the three happy. He told her, “You have to survive. Why don’t you go to China?” Her neighbor introduced her to a North Korean man who brought her to China and then introduced her to a Korean Chinese man. Now she is married to him. The Korean Chinese paid 1500 RMB for her. He treats her well, and they go to church together. Her biggest concern is money. She stays at home and does some farming. INTERVIEW 38 MAN, Age 62 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Musan FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 1997 He came here to get medicine from a Chinese relative. The next year his son came here with his two daughters. He has four children: two daughters in China, one son died, and one son is married in North Korea. He has never been caught in China. He said that his relatives stopped him from going back to North Korea when he came to get medicine. In the 1980s, he came back and forth three times legally to visit his relatives. His relatives in China sent an official invitation, and he applied for permission. He did not need to pay. In the 1980s, policies allowed people living near the border to cross over and see their families. His daughters have never been caught either. One daughter is in Harbin. She paid a bribe and got Chinese citizenship. His other daughter is married to a Chinese, and now her two children go to a Han Chinese school. In order for North Korean children, or even half North Korean children, to go to school, they have to pay a bribe. The price is usually 300 RMB, but they paid 500 RMB. He was a mechanic, but now works in a public bathhouse. He got this job two years ago because the employer’s brother (Korean Chinese) is his friend. He lives in a dormitory for bathhouse workers. He earns 30 RMB at the bathhouse. He is the only North In order for North Korean children…to go to school, they have to paya bribe. Korean working there. When asked, he said there were no North Korean women working there, but he later admitted that there was one working in the karaoke section. His employer knows the police, so the police warn the employer whenever there is a crackdown. The police have never caused him problems, but he is expecting it to happen any day. He believes that North Koreans who commit crimes increase the risk of random crackdowns. Ten days ago there was a murder case in town, and the police contacted his employer. His employer told him to stay away from work for a few days. INTERVIEW 39 WOMAN, Age 31 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Pyongyang FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: June 1999 Her father was a chauffeur for a Party member in the 1970s. Her mother worked in a cosmetics factory. In 1991, there was an economic crisis and they started to have food problems. In general, life became very difficult. Divorce rates were high. Also, people started traveling to China, so families would be separated. Her mother died in 1998 from an operation, and her father died in 1999 from malnutrition. Her brother died from falling from a fifth floor apartment. She has a sister in North Korea. After middle school, she went to a vocational night school. She studied chemistry. She graduated from the vocational school in three and a half years and went to work full time at the dye factory. One of her close neighbors was planning to get married in China. The neighbor told her to go to China with her. She came to China with her neighbor and a “guide” and met a broker in China. She does not know who paid the guide — either her neighbor or the person waiting for her in China. She ran away when she heard the broker talking on the phone to someone about a North Korean woman and a karaoke parlor. After escaping from the broker, she caught a train. There were several North Korean women on the train so she began talking to them. Her future husband was sitting in the next row and suggested that she come to his town because there were even more North Korean women in his town. She followed him to her present village, and now she has a four-year-old daughter. She said authorities don’t bother North Korean women with children. She works on a farm. Her husband treats her well. Her child doesn’t have Chinese citizenship, which would require a 10,000 RMB bribe. Her biggest concern is safety. She does not want to go back to North Korea. INTERVIEW 40 WOMAN, Age 29 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Onsong FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: February 1998 As soon as she arrived in China, she married, so now she has a three-year old daughter. She has never been caught. In North Korea she worked in a brick factory. She finished middle school. She has three younger sisters. Two came to this town, and one went to another town in China. Her sisters have never been caught. In 1999, her father went to China. He went back to North Korea to get her mother. While he was away, her mother tried to go to China because she had not heard anything from her family in China. She tried to go on her own. She took the same path as her husband, but they missed each other. She tried to cross the river, and at that time, it was half frozen. She fell into the river, so she had cuts from the ice. She decided to return to North Korea. At that time, her father was caught crossing into North Korea and sent to the National Security Jail. Her mother was also caught and sent to the National Security Jail. Her father probably died in March 1999 and mother died in April 1999, both a month after their release from the prison. She decided to come to China because she could not survive in North Korea. She had no food, clothes, or income. She did not know what to expect; she felt young and naive. She He believes that North Koreans who commit crimes increase the risk of random crackdowns.wanted to make money and help her parents. “I had fantasies about China that I would go there and be better off than in North Korea.” Two of her sisters came to China first in order to get some assistance. The two sisters traveled to China on their own without a broker. The people that the two sisters met in a town told them to stay. They told some people that they had another sister. One man (Korean Chinese) from the town went to North Korea to get her. She married the man but divorced him three years later. She had a child with her ex-husband. He mistreated her, beat her and cheated on her. Her husband was put in jail for other crimes. After her husband was arrested, she went to her sister’s mother-in-law’s house. She started to work in a Chinese restaurant as a waitress. She met her current husband at the restaurant. He is an older Korean Chinese farmer. He treats her and her child well. She’s concerned about the rumors that North Korean women with children older than five will be sent back. Her child does not have Chinese citizenship, but she has also heard that if the North Korean mother is deported, the child can get citizenship. Her biggest concern is her daughter’s education. She wants her daughter to have the chance to study. “I will try to make money to send her to school.” It costs at least 1000 RMB for North Korean kids to go to school, even though the normal fee is only 700 RMB. |
Executive Summary Introduction The Scope of the Problem The Motivation for Leaving The Situation in China Treatment Upon Deportation The Case for Refugee Status for North Koreans in China Protection for North Koreans in China South Korean Policy United States Policy and the North Korean Human Rights Act of 2004 Recommendations ----------- Notes Appendix: Interviews between Refugees International and North Korean Refugees Acknowledgments |
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Acts of Betrayal: Interviews 31-40
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