APPENDIX: Interviews between Refugees International and North Korean RefugeesThe following section consists of summaries of interviews conducted by Refugees International (RI) staff with North Koreans in China in June 2003 and May-June 2004. The interviews were conducted through interpreters. For reasons of security RI did not attempt to obtain or record the real names of any individuals. North Koreans give their ages dating from conception. The age data in the following summary have been adapted to the American practice of giving age from birth. Interviews 1-10 Interviews 11-20 Interviews 21-30 Interviews 31-40 Interviews 41-47 INTERVIEW 1 MALE, Age 34 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Hoeryong FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: June 2003 Three years ago, he was employed as a driver but then he got sick with a liver problem and was laid off. “Even when you go to the hospital, there are no medicines.” His wife is good at needlework that they sell in North Korea. She can make about 15,000 North Korean won in 45 days of work. Because he doesn’t work in a factory he doesn’t get food, except on the Leader’s [Kim Jong Il’s] birthday or holidays. His daughter goes to kindergarten but must bring her own food to school. It’s his first time in China. The manager of the local church has known him for years because the manager often goes to North Korea. He came to China because his “house faced difficulties in surviving so I came to get help and to study the Bible.” He came to China with another North Korean man on a secret route. He will go back to North Korea tonight to bring back Bibles. He wants to stay in North Korea. His first impression of China is “freedom.” [At this point he started crying.] “Honestly speaking, I don’t want to go back but North Korea is my home country.” He might return to China alone or with his close friends but not with his family. There is radio in North Korea but no international news. In some places the TV can receive Chinese stations. After the new economic reform, the situation got worse. It then worsened further when SARS started. Some people have committed suicide because the situation is so hard. His relatives went for a trip and one of them, a woman, committed suicide. Before SARS, he could get one kilogram of rice for 150 Won. The price increased to 300 won per kilo and now it’s down to 250 Won per kilo. He has not had any problems with the Chinese authorities. “If you come to China for food the penalty in North Korea is 1-6 months of prison. For meeting with foreigners a person could be sentenced to death.” If someone gets caught with Bibles he or she will be sentenced to death. He knows many people who have been put in prison for getting food in China. “I ask you to work for freedom of the North Korean people. I want political and religious freedom. In the law we have freedom, but that’s not the reality.” INTERVIEW 2 SIX GIRLS, Ages 17, 16, 16, 14, 13, 3 BOY, Age 17 PLACES OF ORIGIN IN NORTH KOREA: Not recorded for all; two sisters in the group were from Pyongyang FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 2002 [This interview was conducted in a group setting, with the teenagers sitting on the floor in a circle.] They used to be tutored in China but the situation became tougher after the incidents at the embassies in Beijing. Now the teachers cannot come. Girl (16): Her dad died in North Korea so she came here with her mother. She was arrested in October 2002 because she went with her mother to Beijing in hope of going to South Korea. They got out of the taxi and because they didn’t speak Chinese, they were noticed. The man who arranged for them to go to Beijing turned them in. She stayed in a Beijing jail with her mother for six days and then they were sent back to North Korea. Her mother was sent to a labor center and she was sent to an orphanage center (which is like a jail) in Undok. She got three meals a day in the orphanage but it wasn’t enough food. She told the orphanage that she was sick and said she’d like to go to the hospital. She ran away once she got to the hospital. She returned to China by herself in February. She has had no contact with her mother. When she came here she was very weak. Everyone could recognize that she was North Korean. She’s learning the Bible now. They go one by one to an elementary Chinese class because it’s less noticeable. When asked what they wanted to do in the future, one girl said that she wanted to be a pastor; another wants to be a hair stylist; another wants to be the manager of an orphanage. One girl (14) wants to be the President of North Korea and change things. The boy said that he was sent to an orphanage in North Korea. There were rules there. One rule was that you had to kneel from 5:00 am until 10:00 pm before you get your sentence. Another rule is that you cannot move. If you disobey, you might be hung from your feet. INTERVIEW 3 MALE, Age 40 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Ch’ongjin FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: March 2003 He came to China because he had a problem with his throat so he hadn’t been able to work at his job of milling rice since 1996. “It’s difficult for me to survive. I was living like a beggar and almost died.” Two of his sons died of starvation in 1998. He had no connections in China but friends told him that he could find food in China. He came across the river by himself in the middle of the night and came to a church close to the border. “My impression of China is that I can breathe. It was like there was no oxygen in North Korea.” North Korea is closed and they have no way of knowing international policies. The North Korean government sends people to prison because when people leave they condemn the North Korean government because of what they have learned about the outside situation. He’s now waiting for an operation but it’s expensive. He has no idea about the future. He’s just waiting for his operation. “Life is quite okay here because NGOs are helping us.” “We don’t want to go back to North Korea. We’re definitely willing to go to South Korea. North Korea won’t change.” INTERVIEW 4 MALE, Age 25 PLACE OF ORIGIN: North Hamgyong FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 2000 He first came to China in 2000 because his parents and siblings died of starvation between 1995 and 1997. In May 2002 he was arrested and deported, but he was sick with a kidney problem and his hand was injured during work. After being in prison for only two days, the North Korean government released him because they thought he couldn’t work. There were about 400 other North Koreans in prison (men, women and children). The law is that defectors will be punished in labor centers. But since January the law changed and people are sent to prison. The Chinese police do random checks to look for foreigners, Falun Gong adherents, and North Koreans. One day the police came and asked for his ID; he said he had lost it. He’s afraid to stay at home during the day because of the police checks so he wanders the streets and goes to his apartment just at night to sleep. People who hire North Koreans get fined so they are afraid to hire them. [An NGO in China pays for his rent, food, and medicine.] His health is improving but he’s waiting for a cure from the doctors so he doesn’t know his future. INTERVIEW 5 GIRL, Age 17 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Musan FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: May 2003 She misses her parents, two sisters and brother. Her father works in a mine and her mother is a homemaker. Her father received food distributions but only enough for 4-5 days each month. Before the economic reform he earned 100 won/month. Now he gets 2000 won/month. She has a big family so it’s difficult to survive. She came because she lost the $120 that was supposed to be for her older sister’s marriage. She couldn’t go home after losing that money because she was ashamed so she came to China. This is her first time in China but she had some Chinese money. After she came she was dining alone in a restaurant, met a man, and they married. She finished high school. Her sister is at the university. She came to China because she wanted to have a stable life and give money back to her family. She married a 27-year old Chinese man. She can’t work because she has no identification. She lives in a village and her husband is a peasant. She likes living here but hasn’t betrayed her country. If she doesn’t get caught then she’ll be fine going home. She sends messages to her family saying that she’s safe here but she’s heard no reply. INTERVIEW 6 WOMAN, Age 37, and her Son, Age 15 PLACE OF ORIGIN: unknown FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: Woman in 1999, her son June 2003She is sad that she left her children in North Korea. Her other son, who is 13, is still there. Her plan was to come to China to find work and then go back to North Korea to help her family. When she came to China she came with a neighbor and he got arrested. She lived along the border for a year and found work in the quarry. She worked very hard cutting stones for three months but was paid nothing except room and board. She worked like a man, using dynamite to break up the rock formations. Then she went to another place to work in a quarry but again found no pay. She worked very hard there also. In February 2003 she met a Korean-Chinese man who told her she’d have a good job in the northeast province of Heilongjiang, which is about 1,000 kilometers away. She agreed to go with him, but felt something was strange about this man. She heard him whispering about her to another man about how they might sell her. She pretended to go to the washroom and then fled to the railway station even though she didn’t know any Chinese. She met another Korean-Chinese who helped her and wrote down how to get a ticket and travel. She had stayed in that province for one month and then returned in March 2003 by train. Her son is happy that he has enough food, but he doesn’t like his mother to complain about North Korea. He’s patriotic. He wants to return to North Korea. INTERVIEW 7 WOMAN, Age 30 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Unknown FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 2001 She was arrested and deported in 2001, but returned to China immediately. In November 2002, she was arrested again and returned in December 2002. She originally crossed into China with an unknown North Korean man that she met at the border. “There are North Korean men who look for women along the border to sell them. The Chinese client pays. In the back of my mind I knew I was going to be sold.” She was taken to a Korean-Chinese man’s house and thought she might be sold so she escaped by going to the washroom and fleeing at night. She wandered around because she didn’t know where to go. She tried to go back to the house because she didn’t know where else to go, but she couldn’t find the house, so finally she came to the village where she currently lives. The family she stayed with had two sons and wanted her to live with one of their sons. She married the 30-year-old. After four months of living with him she was arrested when the police came to the house one night. She was so sick in North Korea that they released her. She found that it was still difficult to survive there so she left immediately and took a taxi to the house she’s in now. Her husband paid for the taxi ride because he was happy to see her. Her parents-in-law said she could go to South Korea if she wanted to and they found a businessman to help her. She was trying to go to Beijing in November 2002 with the intention of getting fake documents and going to the embassy. But she was arrested on the train because she had no ID. “If you go to South Korea it’s freedom and in North Korea it’s death.” She was sent to a labor-training center in North Korea. After one month she got stomach problems and almost died. They let her go and she returned to China in December 2002. Her mother (age 69), younger brother, and younger sister are still in North Korea. Her father died. Her younger brother is handicapped. She saw some people in North Korea die of hunger. “The word ‘dying’ is easy to say but when you face death it’s much harder to deal with.” “If you go to South Korea it’s freedom and in North Korea it’s death.” The Chinese police say that North Koreans aren’t a problem, but the laws of the Chinese government state that North Koreans can’t stay. INTERVIEW 8 WOMAN, Age 51 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Unknown FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 2000 Her husband died six years ago. Her son (age 23) lives in North Korea and is a beggar. She got married to a Korean-Chinese man here and is doing farm work. “China’s good for living because the more you work, the more you get. …In North Korea it’s difficult to get rice. North Korea was better when Kim Il-Sung was alive.” Food distribution was good until 1994. After 1995 the distribution slowed down until it stopped. She’s nervous because of the police checks. She’s heard that they’ll beat you if you get caught. She wants to stay here with her husband. INTERVIEW 9 WOMAN, Age 28 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Unknown FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 1999 She came to China with three other girls. One was her cousin and two were her friends. They were caught by a gang of 3-4 Chinese businessmen at the border and sold to southern China (south of Beijing). She was assigned to a Chinese man and stayed with him for two hours. He left for business and locked the door. She climbed the fence and fled from the countryside. She walked all night to the city. She doesn’t speak Chinese so she stopped talking, but she knew how to write the name of Kim Il Sung in Chinese, so she wrote it down and started showing the paper to people. One Chinese man figured out the situation and arranged for her to get food and a train ticket back to Yanbian. No services were required of her. In the meantime her cousin was brought to Yanji and also managed to escape the man she was with, but she was subsequently arrested and deported to North Korea. She’s been in Yanbian with a Korean-Chinese man for three years. She was arrested in 2000 during a random check and was deported. In North Korea she was sent to a labor-training center for two months. The food was corn porridge. The work was digging and constructing. There were about 100 people in the center with her. They are forced to memorize and sing songs about the Great Leader. To be released her parents had to sign a contract guaranteeing her loyalty to North Korea. Although she fled again she assumes that her parents just received a warning. INTERVIEW 10 WOMAN, Age 47 PLACE OF ORIGIN: Ch’ongjin FIRST ARRIVAL IN CHINA: 1998 Several of her father’s relatives live in Yanji. Her relatives sent things to her but she never received them, so she called her relatives in Yanji and decided to come here. She’s worried about security. She married a Chinese man the same year that she came. She was introduced to him by her relatives because they couldn’t take care of her. Since she’s North Korean, no one wants to hire her because she doesn’t have an ID. She was arrested in 1999. The police told her that if she paid a bribe of 2000 RMB then they’d release her. She said she was married to a poor man and finally paid only 800 RMB. She has two children back in North Korea. At one time she had a connection to her children and her Korean-Chinese husband was going to go to North Korea to find them. But they lost contact with her children. “Under Kim Il Sung, life was not sufficient but it was okay; after his son took over it got bad.” She had always heard that life in South Korea was bad, but after coming to China she learned that South Korea was developed and people had a good life. Most people who go to China and return to North Korea find it very hard so they want to return here. She wants to stay here. Three years ago, life started getting more difficult in China. The police started searching for North Koreans more because North Koreans were committing crimes. |
Executive Summary Introduction The Scope of the Problem The Motivation for Leaving The Situation in China Treatment Upon Deportation The Case for Refugee Status for North Koreans in China Protection for North Koreans in China South Korean Policy United States Policy and the North Korean Human Rights Act of 2004 Recommendations ----------- Notes Appendix: Interviews between Refugees International and North Korean Refugees Acknowledgments |
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Acts of Betrayal: Interviews 1-10
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